Comments on: Dries Buytaert’s Vision of Drupal http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/ feelin' good Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:03:06 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: like http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-337 like Mon, 18 Aug 2008 04:50:35 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-337 One other huge issue affecting Drupal's usability is that, from a developer's perspective, it is inherently unstable by design. I personally spent several months trying to get my head around the complexities of Drupal and eventually developed several sites using it. Then version 4.7 was released and it broke everything because it was deliberately not compatible with 4.6 at all. After much work porting to 4.7 and months of instability because all third-party modules had to be updated, 5.0 was released and it is not compatible at all with 4.7. That's when I gave up on Drupal. I just recieved a request from a client to upgrade a site. It seemed a good candidate for Drupal, so I revisited it. A check of the Drupal website reveals that the situation is worse than ever. After 5.0, 6.0 was released. All totally incompatible with each other. Now most modules and themes are not available for 6.0 and many have never even been ported to 5.0. Whether true or not, anyone with past experience with Drupal would likely assume that 7.0 will once again break everything and most modules and themes will not work for a very long time and stay away. One other huge issue affecting Drupal’s usability is that, from a developer’s perspective, it is inherently unstable by design.

I personally spent several months trying to get my head around the complexities of Drupal and eventually developed several sites using it.

Then version 4.7 was released and it broke everything because it was deliberately not compatible with 4.6 at all. After much work porting to 4.7 and months of instability because all third-party modules had to be updated, 5.0 was released and it is not compatible at all with 4.7.

That’s when I gave up on Drupal.

I just recieved a request from a client to upgrade a site. It seemed a good candidate for Drupal, so I revisited it.

A check of the Drupal website reveals that the situation is worse than ever. After 5.0, 6.0 was released. All totally incompatible with each other. Now most modules and themes are not available for 6.0 and many have never even been ported to 5.0.

Whether true or not, anyone with past experience with Drupal would likely assume that 7.0 will once again break everything and most modules and themes will not work for a very long time and stay away.

]]> By: seutje http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-335 seutje Thu, 07 Aug 2008 09:49:52 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-335 Dries for president!! \o/ Dries for president!! \o/

]]> By: tewson http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-293 tewson Sun, 01 Jun 2008 14:59:24 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-293 hi there just an opinion, i think you should put a link to Buytaert's comment in the entry's body since Buytaert himself is considering this entry as FUD. hi there
just an opinion, i think you should put a link to Buytaert’s comment in the entry’s body since Buytaert himself is considering this entry as FUD.

]]> By: mameou http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-291 mameou Sun, 01 Jun 2008 00:28:22 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-291 <b>Dries Buytaert:</b> Thanks for your clarification. It certainly is good news and a relief. You and the community have done an awesome job with Drupal. I truly appreciate it. <b>panuta:</b> I understand what you're saying, because I've been through the same experience. The only thing that kept me from giving up on Drupal is its overriding system and extensive list of contributed modules. For me, that's worth the initial struggle. Dries Buytaert: Thanks for your clarification. It certainly is good news and a relief. You and the community have done an awesome job with Drupal. I truly appreciate it.

panuta: I understand what you’re saying, because I’ve been through the same experience. The only thing that kept me from giving up on Drupal is its overriding system and extensive list of contributed modules. For me, that’s worth the initial struggle.

]]> By: panuta http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-288 panuta Sat, 31 May 2008 14:15:55 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-288 I used to give Drupal a chance for being a framework for my little website project. I spent time on that about 2 days and gave up totally. At first, I thought Drupal can archive me a rapid development scheme, but apparently it's not, at least for me. One reason is that I have quite a low-level skill in term of Drupal development. (I can install it as a blog, customize a theme, and manage a few features though -- see my old blog) Another reason is that development style is totally not suite me. I'm a web developer for quite a long time and familiar to build things from ground-up perspective. Building things by hooking, customizing and writing modules made me furious many times when I spent hours figure it out how to do something. (It's actually my bad, I know) After 2 days, it's like I got nothing but Drupal knowledge (which I forget already) Right now, I'm using Django framework. Although it's new to me too (I want to try something new), after I understand its MVC architecture, my development became what I can really call a rapid development. It actually made me furious sometimes too because I never code Python before (can you believe that? lol) but it's far less than using Drupal. Using Django, everything is make sense to me. There's no hidden operations lie between values in database and texts on webpage. (For Drupal, I have no idea how it work) Not because Drupal is an inferior framework. Not at all. But it's me that Drupal architecture has quite a steep learning curve and it's not a curve that I'm familiar to. Comparing Drupal and Django development style is like it comes from a different direction. Django has no existing operation and let you create everything from ground-up, while Drupal has many operation in place and let you reshape, trim down and decorate it. I used to give Drupal a chance for being a framework for my little website project. I spent time on that about 2 days and gave up totally. At first, I thought Drupal can archive me a rapid development scheme, but apparently it’s not, at least for me. One reason is that I have quite a low-level skill in term of Drupal development. (I can install it as a blog, customize a theme, and manage a few features though — see my old blog) Another reason is that development style is totally not suite me. I’m a web developer for quite a long time and familiar to build things from ground-up perspective. Building things by hooking, customizing and writing modules made me furious many times when I spent hours figure it out how to do something. (It’s actually my bad, I know) After 2 days, it’s like I got nothing but Drupal knowledge (which I forget already)

Right now, I’m using Django framework. Although it’s new to me too (I want to try something new), after I understand its MVC architecture, my development became what I can really call a rapid development. It actually made me furious sometimes too because I never code Python before (can you believe that? lol) but it’s far less than using Drupal. Using Django, everything is make sense to me. There’s no hidden operations lie between values in database and texts on webpage. (For Drupal, I have no idea how it work)

Not because Drupal is an inferior framework. Not at all. But it’s me that Drupal architecture has quite a steep learning curve and it’s not a curve that I’m familiar to. Comparing Drupal and Django development style is like it comes from a different direction. Django has no existing operation and let you create everything from ground-up, while Drupal has many operation in place and let you reshape, trim down and decorate it.

]]> By: sugree http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-287 sugree Sat, 31 May 2008 13:35:07 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-287 framework rules! framework rules!

]]> By: Dries Buytaert http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-286 Dries Buytaert Sat, 31 May 2008 11:52:41 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-286 I had already read your Twitter messages about usability vs framework and I have to disagree, mameou. I'm committed to improving both the end-user experience and the developer experience. We've been doing exactly that for years. For example, Drupal 7, the next major release of Drupal will ship with a testing framework in core. We've spent weeks, if not months, working on this. Every self-respecting developer will applaud this because it makes Drupal 7 a fundamentally better development platform than Drupal 6. This is just one example of many changes that we have in the pipeline that will advance Drupal as a development framework. The reason I focus so much on usability (in my presentations) is because that is what I believe the community needs to get better at. I'm confident that the existing community can make Drupal a better platform, but I'm less confident that the existing community can make Drupal significantly easier to use. How would I not care about Drupal being a development framework? I'm a developer myself ... I've always been focused, completely and utterly, on the aesthetics of Drupal's code and APIs. In other words, we're making Drupal easier to use _and_ we're making Drupal a better framework. Be careful not to spread FUD. I had already read your Twitter messages about usability vs framework and I have to disagree, mameou. I’m committed to improving both the end-user experience and the developer experience. We’ve been doing exactly that for years.

For example, Drupal 7, the next major release of Drupal will ship with a testing framework in core. We’ve spent weeks, if not months, working on this. Every self-respecting developer will applaud this because it makes Drupal 7 a fundamentally better development platform than Drupal 6. This is just one example of many changes that we have in the pipeline that will advance Drupal as a development framework.

The reason I focus so much on usability (in my presentations) is because that is what I believe the community needs to get better at. I’m confident that the existing community can make Drupal a better platform, but I’m less confident that the existing community can make Drupal significantly easier to use.

How would I not care about Drupal being a development framework? I’m a developer myself … I’ve always been focused, completely and utterly, on the aesthetics of Drupal’s code and APIs.

In other words, we’re making Drupal easier to use _and_ we’re making Drupal a better framework. Be careful not to spread FUD.

]]> By: mk http://mameou.wordpress.com/2008/05/31/dries-buytaert-vision-of-drupal/#comment-285 mk Sat, 31 May 2008 08:56:45 +0000 http://mameou.wordpress.com/?p=92#comment-285 Don't expect too much. Drupal 7 will be just a so-so release. Everything will start on Drupal 8. Trust me. Don’t expect too much. Drupal 7 will be just a so-so release. Everything will start on Drupal 8. Trust me.

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